The TSI engines have received many praises. They're fun to drive - responsive, powerful turbo engines with a nice soundstage. A good example of downsizing. But they are not flawless. The warnings are many. Is it safe to buy a car with a TSI engine?
Which engines are involved?
Almost all petrol engines produced by the Volkswagen Group between 2009 and 2016 are affected, specifically engine type EA111 with timing chain. The volume sellers can include the following engines:
– 1,2 TSI with 85, 90, 105 or 110 HP
– 1,4 TSI with 122, 140 or 170 HP
– 1,8 TSI with 120 or 160 HP
- In addition, there are corresponding engines for Audi, Seat and Skoda. Audi calls the TSI engines TFSI. A quick search on Finn.no estimates that there are currently 752 cars that can be equipped with the TSI engines in question. Then we have not counted on the 1,4 and 1,5 TSI 150 HP which have a timing belt - that is regime, not chain.
*) See examples of affected models and production years
It is the registry chain that is the source of the problem.
It stretches. Eventually, the chain tensioner can no longer tighten it, and the chain can break or skip a few teeth. Both are fatal for the engine. There are many stories of unhappy car owners. After two employees at Teknikens värld experienced engine failure with their TSI models (1,4 and 1,2 TSI), the renowned car magazine issued the following warning: Warning – don't buy this Volkswagen engine! The timing chain from hell. This was in 2015.
The world's best engine?
Terje's cars have on a couple of occasions called the 1,2 TSI the world's best Polo engine. At the same time, engine failures were spreading and we received worried messages from our readers. We knew there was a problem with the engines, but we didn't know the extent. Today we know more. Only the Volkswagen Group knows the truth, - but I think we are close.
Was caught in the dealer network
To track down the extent of a car-related problem, we check at Finn.no. We deal with privately sold cars with the highest mileage. Brand dealers do not want to advertise that the engine has been replaced due to a manufacturing fault. Here you have to ask. Private individuals, on the other hand, have everything to gain from providing all information. There is no indication that engine breakdowns are a major problem for owners of TSI cars. What we can determine is that many register chains have been changed. Probably under warranty. It therefore appears that the engine problems have been resolved through the dealer network. Perhaps the bills were forwarded to Germany?
A bigger problem abroad
We have seen something similar before. The Volkswagen T5 Transporter and Caravelle with a 2-liter biturbo engine of 180 HP had a serious manufacturing defect that led to high oil consumption and ultimately an engine replacement. We wrote about it on Terje's cars. For a long time, our Contact page was red-hot with anxious car owners – not only in Norway, but also in other European countries, – and Australia. Then we saw that foreign car owners with shorter warranty periods were met with a cold shoulder by their dealers. In Norway, on the other hand, customers had their engines replaced under extended warranty. We think the dealers here at home have "sorted things out". On the internet, we still read stories about foreign TSI customers who were sent home with the message that nothing was wrong despite a constant rattling noise in the register. Then the warranty runs out and soon after the customers' engines break down.
Can be expensive without warranty
The problem with the registration chains in TSI may be brought up again. After the end of the new car warranty, car owners on the second-hand market must pay themselves. Changing a timing chain is a mechanic's day job. If the work is carried out at a branded workshop, the bill can come to NOK 20. Buying a car with TSI does not have to be unsafe, but it does require careful research into the car's history.
Be thorough!
It is good news if the car's history includes changing the timing chain. Although we've seen it before. Since the fault is due to poor component quality, the fault will return if the bad component is replaced with a similarly bad component. A repair performed recently, is therefore better than one carried out a few years ago. Another factor that can play a role is whether the repair was carried out at a brand dealer. A timing chain repair kit contains, in addition to the chain itself, slide rails, chain tensioners, sprockets for the camshaft(s) - depending on whether it is SOHC or DOHC. When the chain expands, the sprockets the chain runs on wear out. This also applies to the sprocket on the end of the crankshaft. It rotates twice as fast as the cam wheels and is thus more subject to wear. In the video at the bottom of the page, this is clearly shown. The sprocket on the crank is double-tracked, one for the cam chain and one for the chain that drives the oil pump. The point here is that if you don't change the sprockets the chain runs in, there is a risk that the new chain will wear out faster. If you are going to sell or buy a TSI car with the timing chain replaced, the invoice for the job should be included.
Use your ear at startup!
A rattling or rattling sound in the register when starting from cold is a common sign that the chain tensioner needs to be replaced. On cars with a timing chain, it is not unusual. On the TSI engines, the chain tensioner is hydraulic and dependent on oil pressure. On a cold start, it will therefore take 2-3 seconds before enough pressure is built up for the tensioner to work. It can be heard as a rattling sound at start-up (can be reminiscent of a rattling bank). This is completely normal, but should disappear after 2-3 seconds. If it takes longer than this, the chain has stretched. Considering the history of engine failures among the TSI engine, one should not ignore this sign. Then the chain must be replaced.
A cold start is worth its weight in gold
If you buy a TSI car, the first start is of vital importance. Feel free to start with the hood open and listen to the right side of the car. Count the seconds until the engine sound changes. If the engine has been in use recently, it will not be possible to capture this check. Then you have to trust the seller. Also note that if the chain has stretched too far, or the chain tensioner is not working, the engine will rattle constantly. It's hard to spot if you don't know the car beforehand. There are many "audio samples" available on YouTube.
What you can do to avoid engine breakdown
If you own a car with a TSI engine, it is important to focus on the cold start rattle. This is the only sign you get. It's actually the only sign the mechanics get too. Stretched timing chain does not necessarily show any error codes. If you ignore the warning, the engine may break down. Consult a mechanic if you are unsure. Also remember to change the oil every year at the latest. Volkswagen's long service intervals have only compounded the problems.
Should we ignore the horror stories of engine breakdowns?
It is said that the timing chain never needs to be changed. Today we know that this does not apply to the TSI engines. But for a while the car workshops may have thought so. No danger! Just drive! Surely that's what the captain of the Titanic also thought? Today, people are much more careful. Millions of cars with TSI engines have been sold, and the roads are not exactly blocked by broken-down TSI cars.
What about car owners who have changed the chain many times?
Unfortunately, bad components in production also ended up in the dealers' parts warehouses. There are countless examples of exactly that. At "my" Møller dealer, spare parts - such as a timing chain replacement kit - are delivered the same day/the next day from a central warehouse (Sweden?). Besides saving the dealers from keeping their own stocks, it is easier to ensure the supply of "fresh" components.
Conclusion
I do not agree with claims that it is unsafe to buy TSI engines with a timing chain. If you buy a used car, you should familiarize yourself with the model in advance, for example by searching for information online. Next, you must be careful to check the history and do the necessary research. This applies regardless of which car you are going to buy.
*) Examples of affected models
Affected models with timing chain have engine type EA111. From 2012, the EA211 engines came into production. They had timing belt - not chain. Many people think that the problem with the registry chains disappeared in 2012. That is not true. Several years would pass before the EA111 engines were phased out for all affected models.
To clarify this, I have started from cars for sale and checked the VIN/registration number against the vehicle register at skruvat.no to see how long engine codes belonging to the EA111 were actually in production. This is therefore not a complete list - only based on individual cars of some affected models.
BILER MED MOTORTYPE EA111:
VW Polo 1,2 TSI 90/110HK CBZC - Ut modellåret 2014
VW Beetle 1,2 105HK CBZB - Ut modellåret 2014
VW Golf 1,2 105HK CBZB - Ut modellåret 2013
VW Golf 1,4 TSI 122HK CAXA - Ut modellåret 2012
VW Passat 1,4 TSI 122HK CAXA - Ca. midtveis i modellåret 2015
Audi A1 1,2 TFSI 86HK CBZA - Ut modellåret 2014
Skoda Rapid SB 1,2 TSI 105HK CBZB - Ut modellåret 2015
Skoda Octavia 1,2 TSI 105HK CBZB - Ut modellåret 2013
Skoda Yeti 1,2 TSI 105HK CBZB - I læpet av eller ut modellåret 2015
BILER MED MOTORTYPE EA888 (MED REGISTERKJEDE):
Audi 1,8 TFSI 120HK CDHA - Ut modellår 2015
See
Teknikens värld 29.05.2015 – Warning – do not buy this Volkswagen engine!
This article is full of errors, example; Quote “Almost all petrol engines produced by the Volkswagen Group between 2009 and 2017 are affected, specifically models with a timing chain. The volume sellers are the following engines:
– 1,2 TSI with 85, 90, 105 or 110 HP"
The EA111 (with timing chain) mentioned here was replaced in 2012 by the EA211 - which has a timing belt and no timing chain.
The EA111 (with timing chain) was actually produced until 2017, among other things, as the 1,2 TSI in various makes and models under VAG - but was replaced by the EA211 (with timing belt) during model changes/upgrades.
Hi, my son has a Golf 1,4tsi 170hp, the problem is that it won't get above 3000rpm and wondering what it could be? Can't get any lights on inside the car either.
The car is a 2007 mod
Doesn't seem like it's going into emergency mode. Guess it's related to the turbo. Recommend a fault code scan. Anyone else have experience with not getting the revs above 3000?
Hello. Considering a used 2013 Sharan 1.4 TSI 150HK. Am a bit skeptical after owning a 2006 Golf with 1.4 140HK and chain tensioner. Struggling to find out if this Sharan has a chain or belt (is 25 miles from me) but read here that you write that the 150HK variants have a belt and are therefore not affected. Can you confirm that? Is there no 150HK EA111 even if the car is manufactured in 2012?
Sharan and Tiguan were the only VAG models delivered with an EA111 variant with 1,4 150HP (CAVA, CTHA). The Sharan had these engines through 2015 (think calendar year - not model year). From 2016, Sharan received 1,4 150 HP EA211 engines with belt (CZDA, CZEA). The Golf and Audi A3 already had the same engine from model year 2015 and it was the one used in the hybrid models. It was the latter engine I was thinking of. Sorry for the mistake – will fix it 🙂 Sharan is a nice 7-seater then!
Hi, Looking at a Skoda Roomster 2011 mod with a TSI engine of 1,2 l and 105 Hp. It has an automatic but not sure if it is a QD200 or QD250. In the history at Finn it says that not all services have been followed, not necessarily bad if the owner has done what needs to be done! This engine probably has a timing chain, but have not received an answer as to whether this has been replaced. The car has 142000 on the clock. Should this be ruled out if the chain has not been changed?
Grateful for good answers from all of you who have really shown knowledge in the forum.
Regards, Lars
Hi, I'm looking at a 1,2 VW Golf 110 TSI with 2015hp, so I'm wondering if it's also affected by the scary manufacturing defect? It's a model from 2015... I'm not quite sure and will talk to the seller tomorrow. Thanks for your answers!
It has a timing belt and is not affected 🙂
Hey
I have looked at an Audi A6 2007 model with a 2,0 TFSI engine. I think the engine code is BPJ. Is it affected? That's 170 HP
BPj belongs to a different engine type than the one described in the post. EA113 is based on VW FSI (not TSI). See the link below. Looks like the engine has a timing chain. A squealing sound may occur and is a sign that the chain tensioner needs to be replaced. Don't know if the chain stretches.
https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=5
Hi, The daughter's Skoda Roomster 1,2 TSI with a DSG6 gearbox shows on the petrol meter that consumption when the engine is warm, 60km and a speed of 1200 uses 0,77l/mile! Could it be that the meter is showing errors? Can't get this to work! The daughter herself claims that she thinks the car uses a lot of petrol. According to tests, consumption should be between 0,5 and 0,6 l/mile depending on the driving pattern.
Could the cause be bad spark plugs, a defective catalytic converter or something else?
Thankful for answers.
Hi, I'm looking at a 1,2 VW Polo110 TSI with 2015hp, so I'm wondering if it's also affected by the scary manufacturing defect?
No, model year 2015 is not affected - i.e. cars manufactured from mid-2014 or later.
Thanks and bows for the quick reply
Hey,
Considering this one: https://www.finn.no/car/used/ad.html?finnkode=282267448
2014 Golf R-line 1,4 TSI with 140hp and DSG. Is this affected by the error, or is it the timing belt? Does it otherwise look like a good buy?
Hi, thanks for the informative article. I have had several Audis with 1.8T before 2005 and have been very happy with them.
Now when the car is to be replaced, I am skeptical about the newer 1.8T /2.0T after 2009 or when they arrived, because of the oil consumption. Can you give any pointers on related TFSI/FSI engines that are affected by high oil consumption?
I wrote about it a couple of years ago. The problem of high oil consumption appeared in the VW T5 2,0 TDI 180HK. Oddly enough, several Audi owners experienced the same thing in 2,0 TFSI engines with engine codes CDNB and CDNC. I have received a lot of mail from affected owners - both VW T5 and Audi A4/A5 confirming the cases.
https://terjebjornstad.com/no/2016/07/19/t5-og-a5-med-produksjonsfeil/
Hello. Have an Audi A1 1,2 tfsi that cheats/coughs when idling and smokes a little while driving. Do you have any idea what it could be?
Does an Audi A3, 2014 model, 1,2-105 TFSI have a belt or chain? Reg VH 60607
VH60607 has strap (EA211)
Hello, is it safe to buy a Skoda superb 2022 with 1,4 hybrid with 218 hp or will the engine be too small for such a large car
It's an absolutely superb drivetrain that you'll love. Gives real thrust when petrol and electric motor work together. Recovers electricity during normal driving so that the electric motor can give an extra boost also on long journeys. Otherwise, the petrol engine is switched off when rolling freely with little or no gas pressure, which is pleasant - little noise and vibrations.
Hi, I'm about to buy a Skoda Fabia 1,2 TSI 90hp Style and I'm wondering if that model is also affected?
Thanks in advance!
I forgot to mention that it concerns a 2015 model
No, it is not affected. Skoda Fabia TSI 90/110 was upgraded from model year 2015 and has reg. belt,
Hey,
Thanks for a very informative post. I have just had a 2011 Polo 1,2 TSI (105HK) with engine code CBZB on PKK. They didn't mention anything about the chain, but I find that the car runs very poorly compared to when I bought it in 2013. The acceleration, which was absolutely amazing, has become very poor. Have also started to notice this tingling that you mention, but I believe that the tingling subsides after a few seconds. Thought maybe it could be the turbo that is the problem as the engine has become so unresponsive and sluggish. Nothing seems to happen when I press the gas pedal, and the car had very good gas response when I bought it. Do you have any thoughts on what the problem might be and how much it might cost to fix?
1,8 with engine code CDHB (Audi A4 2009). Safe or scary?
Engine code CDHB belongs to engine series EA888 (not EA111 for which the article was originally written) - so I do not know if the scope is as widespread. The CDHB belongs to the 2nd generation in the engine series. It has a chain and is known to have problems - primarily - with the chain tensioner - but also that the chain stretches. Both parts can cause the chain to skip. Sees that Skruvat.no sells a complete chain set for NOK 2685.
What petrol engine should you go for in a possible Polo or A3 that will be the first car for an 18-year-old girl. Newer than 2015 because of the register, I think, but there are probably problems with oil consumption and coked intake / valves on these engines as well.
If the timing chain has been changed, the 1,2 TSI 90hp is a fairly safe purchase - also for cars earlier than 2015 (EA111). Recommends 1,2 TSI also from model year 2015- (EA211) and 1,0 TSI 95hp. Polo (2009-) are safe cars – and easy to handle for young drivers.
The smallest engines for the Audi A3. 1,2 TFSI 105hp up to and including model year 2013 are safe purchases if the timing chain has been replaced. From model year 2014: 1,2 TFSI 105/110 hp is EA211 and has a timing belt - not a chain. Rechargeable hybrid with 1,4 TFSI and electric motor (e-tron): Reg. belt and petrol engine ok. Be careful with parallel imports. Norwegian cars have been recalled due to the possibility of moisture in the battery boxes - and several - particularly early cars - have had their batteries replaced under warranty.
Hey,
considering a 2017 Skoda Yeti with 1,2 liter 110HP TSI engine and DSG automatic. Can this be delivered with a chain since it was then an outgoing model? 2017 was the last year the Yeti was produced. Love the car and it has only done 27.000 km. Is 1,2 liters /110 HP and DSG automatic a bad solution for such a large car?
Hi, I also like Yeti. 1,2 TSI 110 with DSG is fine for slightly larger cars. Quiet and powerful motor. The 110 horse in the 2017 model has a timing belt not a chain (Type EA211, code probably CYVB). To be on the safe side, we recommend checking whether the car starts smoothly from a standstill - and not with a jerk and an audible "clunk" that you can get if the DSG gearbox is misdriven by sloshing in a queue. Good luck!
Hello, is this the Volkswagen Golf?
1.2 TSi Combi-coupé Automatic 2013 model affected?
After looking at 2013 models, it appears that cars first registered in the 2013 calendar year (from January) have received EA211 engines (not affected) while cars first registered in 2012 have EA111 (affected). Exactly WHEN the change occurred, I don't know.
You can check yourself by going to skruvat.no (car parts) and entering your car number. This will bring up information about the car, including engine type. CJZA and CJZB are ok – not affected, while CBZA and CBZB are affected. If necessary, send me your car number on the contact page.