Møller car

Our car ended up as a trade-in car a few days after the unfortunate service. MøllerBil gave a better trade-in price than we could dream of getting at a private sale. We didn't lose money on the misery. The market for fixed diesel cars was not very hot, so the car became a shelf warmer at the dealer.

Did the car owners take the brunt of the diesel cheat?

diesel cheats

When Volkswagen was exposed for diesel cheating, almost 150 cars in Norway lost their type approvals. Volkswagen avoided paying compensation to affected car owners. Instead, they promised to repair the cars so that they would meet the type approvals. But many were still left with "Svarteper".

 

Systematic cheating

The cheating was exposed by the EPA (The Environmental Protection Agency) when they discovered that Volkswagen cars exceeded US emissions requirements. The investigation showed that TDI engines of the EA189 type were programmed to create lower emissions during the NEDC test cycles than under normal driving conditions. Cars that are tested during the NEDC - New European Driving Cycle - follow a specific driving pattern. It is not difficult to get the software to pick up when cars are being test driven. Several manufacturers have probably discovered this possibility - but none put it into the system as thoroughly as Volkswagen. Diesel cheating in the system.

What did management know?

After the cheating was revealed, heads in the Volkswagen group's management began to roll. Martin Winterkorn, CEO, Heinz Jakob Neusser, head of brand development and Ulrich Hackenberg, Head of Research Audi, had to go. Wolfgang Hatz, head of research and development at Porsche, as well as engine development at Volkswagen, retired while under investigation. As managers, they had a legal responsibility regardless of what they actually knew.
 
But what did they really know?
 

Almost two years after the disclosure, it was discovered that Volkswagen had set up a top-secret test facility where only a very few employees had access. The facility was located in Wolfsburg just a stone's throw away from the administration. There is no doubt that senior management did what happened in there - and probably took part in the decisions.

The engineers were just following orders.

The revelations about diesel cheating were about billions of kroner - among other things, Volkswagen was ordered to pay compensation to American Volkswagen owners. Here at home, Volkswagen escaped far cheaper. They had promised to fix affected cars so that they could meet the emission requirements. NAF feared that the modifications would steal horsepower. In that case, the car owners could be entitled to compensation - not least to be reimbursed for parts of the one-off fees. They urged their members to get the dealers to sign a contract that this would not happen. The negotiator refused. In reality, there is no organization in Norway that is powerful enough to prosecute the Volkswagen group. The retail chain was just following orders.

A sad day

It was I who collected the "wife's car" from service on that fateful day in 2017. An Audi Q3 2,0 TDI 177 HP with DSG and four-wheel drive - a fantastic drive - a pleasure to drive. Like a gazelle!
 
When I started the car at the dealer, I immediately realized what had happened. It was fixed for diesel cheating. The customer service representative had not said anything. There was nothing on the invoice. The trip home was miserable. The soundscape in the nice car was dominated by a penetrating tractor sound. The car lacked traction at low revs. The DSG gearbox no longer seemed to be in step with the engine. The car that previously drove like a gazelle had been transformed into a sow. My only thought was to get rid of it as soon as possible.
 
This is what readers wrote here terjesbiler.no after getting their cars fixed:

"... there is poorer bottom traction at low revs. More characteristic diesel sound. Generally worse throttle response.”

"- In order to get away at the same speed, you now have to increase the revs. More noise, even more consumption and even more emissions…”
 
"- Today my audi 2015 allroad with 320 tax-expensive diesel horses EA189 was adjusted. The torque was gone and only responds to a flat pedal and has to howl at high revs to get thrust. The car was destroyed.”

 

Audi Q3 (8U) 2,0 TDI 177

Several variants of EA189

There are 3 different variants of the EA189 engines – 1,4-litre, 1,6-litre and 2,0-litre. The smallest engines were fitted with an extra pipe in the intake. The largest were only reprogrammed. I have no basis for saying that the cars were destroyed, but the reprogramming of the TDI engines 2,0 177 HP ended disastrously for everyone. Teknikens Värld tested a Volkswagen Passat with the same drivetrain as our car, and declared the fix to be "unacceptable". The test car had not only been changed engine characteristics - it had also had its engine power reduced from 177 to 163 HP. The engine in question is found in cars such as the Audi A6, Audi A4, Audi Q5 and Audi Q3, as well as the Volkswagen Passat and Tiguan. Take into account that customers who chose this fine powertrain also chose plenty of extra equipment.

What happened to the wrecked cars?

Our car ended up as a trade-in car a few days after the unfortunate service. MøllerBil gave a better trade-in price than we could dream of getting at a private sale. We didn't lose money on the misery. The market for fixed diesel cars was not very hot, so the car became a shelf warmer at the dealer. Perhaps it was eventually resold to a professional buyer? The cars with the same engine option are still in traffic and are traded regularly. I have gone through private sales of cars with the same engine to see how the owners characterize the cars.

"- Powerful diesel engine with enough horsepower and torque."

"... lovely and comfortable car and driving experience."

It's hard to understand the excitement. Could the Volkswagen group have made later upgrades to the software to improve the engine characteristics? Is there a black market for resetting the software?
 
Were we who experienced the fix too critical?
 
You have to consider that those who bought fixed cars never got to experience them the way they were supposed to be. The quiet noise level, the nice turbo pull at low revs and how the DSG gearbox followed up with lightning-quick shifts. Relatively speaking, perhaps the car I would characterize as "totally destroyed" - compared to itself - was still better than other cars on the market?

One last thought

The diesel cheating scandal involved politics, business and big capital in Europe and the USA. Although the cheating triggered sky-high fines and compensation - and heads rolled - the culprits got away cheaply in Europe. In the USA, the cars were put away in large collection points and abandoned by the owners due to driving bans. Maybe the cars are still there? Creating a "quick fix" was the only solution that would not damage the Volkswagen Group, German business and the financial market. The management of the Volkswagen Group had to know that the fix could deteriorate some of the cars. But why would they start being open and honest about this now? Company cultures don't change overnight! If Volkswagen's management had informed that the cars would change character, it could trigger a new avalanche of replacements - as in the USA.

Volkswagen is powerful in the Federal Republic of Germany. The leadership knew that once the forces were deployed, resistance would be futile.

 

terjes cars
Terje
In retrospect, it seems clear that the diesel scandal was the result of a lack of social responsibility and a bad corporate culture - arrogant, cynical and fraudulent. Volkswagen is powerful, with connections all the way up to the Chancellor. This may have helped give the Volkswagen Group a greater leeway in Europe than in the US – allowing Volkswagen to ride on Germany's enormous political and commercial power within the EU. Firing some managers probably didn't change a thing.

 

See

Teknikens Värld TV – Dieselgate: Volkswagen, Audi and Skoda cars lose power after fix.

E24.no (30.12.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX) – NAF asks members to protect themselves against diesel fraud
Teknikensvarld.se – Swedish Volkswagen owners' reactions to the diesel cheating
Bloomberg.com (25.08.2017/XNUMX/XNUMX) – VW diesel cheat system is said to be tied to secret German site

Is your car affected by the emissions cheat?
diesel cheats
Well delivered?

 

E-tron in emergency mode

hyundai i10
A3 e-tron in winter twilight. Archive photo.

Advanced electronics are great – but not in a snowstorm. Was it the weather conditions that put the Audi e-tron out of action this evening? Fortunately, I was able to get there in a car without advanced electronics. The Hyundai i10 is in many ways a cool car, but not today. - Audi e-tron, on the other hand...

 

The day the electronics failed

I had my bike locked in a bike shed at work, but the electronic card reader for the door lock had died. Dense snow drifts, moist air and changing temperatures put the electronics out of action. It was going to get worse. While I was trying to find out when the bus left, my wife called. Her Audi A3 e-tron had gone completely "bananas". The dashboard flashed and honked, the red oil light was on and the screen told of serious engine problems. There were no mechanical problems. It was the electronics that failed. The worst part was that she couldn't turn off the ignition and lock the car. She couldn't leave it like that, and the tow truck couldn't come for two hours. They had a lot to do today.

E-tron with electronics problems

I have owned several modern family cars from the Volkswagen group. Under such conditions, it happened that they went into emergency mode without warning. Then it was just a matter of jumping over to the shoulder of the road, turning off the engine, putting on the hazard warning lights, calmly counting to ten and starting again. Pure routine. My guess is that when the car's central control system (software) stops, everything fails - including the error logging. Then all you have to do is resort to the "Swedish button". Cut the power. The problem with the e-tron is that there is no "Swedish button".

Small Hyundai i10 on the way!

With a woman in distress and an e-tron with serious electronics problems, I had to ditch the bus home and find a suitable car to come to the rescue. I had just returned the weekend's Toyota ProAce to Hertz car pool. Next to it, stood a red Hyundai i10. It was supposed to be the ambulance. The transition from ProAce to i10 was quite a big one. From feeling towering on the road, I suddenly became very small, - even compared to normal cars.
 
The snowfall had caused chaos in the traffic. On the Ringveien, things went awry. On the way out of the parking garage, I had to drive around a newer Golf with hazard lights. On the move, I couldn't tell if it was a GTE (Volkswagen's "e-tron") or an e-Golf. A little further away there was a bus with its emergency lights on. A really bad day for electronics, I thought.
 
While I was on the phone with my wife, her Audi had miraculously come back to its hooks. After half an hour it worked again. I asked her to start the gas engine and drive a few leisurely laps in the parking lot.

 


hyundai i10
Hyundai i10

Crazy?

As I drove the little Hyundai, I thought how liberating low-tech this vehicle is. In the snow, I amused myself by "throwing" it into 90 degree turns and giving it gas. It felt like it was turning around on its own little axis without losing momentum, just like in a computer game. This is a surprisingly fun car, without being overwhelmed by electronics. I could have called the Hyundai "crazy", but in the stress and drive to help my wife, "crazy" wasn't the right word. Rema 1000 expression "The simple is often the best" fit better.

No problems for the Teslas

As I approached my wife's workplace I glimpsed her cosmos-blue e-tron in slow motion around and around the parking lot. On the way home, I saw another Golf parked on the side of the road with its hazard lights on. I was surprised that only cars from the Volkswagen group had been stopped. Why no Tesla? They are packed with all kinds of electronics! But the Teslas obviously had no problems at all this evening. On the contrary. I saw how easily they made their way through the snow. What a grip!

"No, the have we never heard of…”

I imagine that's the kind of thing people say in the car industry to avoid a bad reputation. I have experienced it in the past, - about technical errors that have been common, but only known within the dealer environment. You don't get to know that customer. You must know someone at the workshop. Møllerbil is a serious dealer. The mechanic who checked the error log found no information. The car was checked twice. Each check took less than half an hour.

As a car blogger, I allow myself to speculate

It took me a few seconds to find a forum page online for owners of the e-tron's sister model, the Golf GTE. A man had his car winched onto the tow truck after experiencing exactly the same thing as my wife. Other owners reported similar experiences. When Møller checked our car, they probably found nothing new - and just reported another case of a known fault to the factory. - And should anyone be wondering... Of course Norwegian Audi dealers are aware of this problem!

Is the Volkswagen group out on thin ice again?

Headlines about that "E-tron has electronic problems" would hardly have come conveniently after the diesel scandal. The management at Volkswagen has declared that they are betting on electricity. The E-tron project is the spearhead that will catch the world's eyes. Tesla was there a few years ago. At the time, many were skeptical of the technology and thought the project would fail. It didn't – at least not technologically. Should the "e-tron" fail now, the future for the Volkswagen Group undoubtedly looks bleak.

 

hyundai i10
The new Audi A1 looks fantastic. Covered in the background: New e-tron.

On my way to Møllerbil Vest (Oslo) I spotted the new A1. It has a 1,0-liter TSI engine of 116 HP with S Tronic – perhaps the simplest powertrain Audi can deliver at the moment. The design language does not look that much like the Hyundai i10, but in terms of size it is in the middle between the i10 and the A3. The new A1 actually looks very good! If the e-tron project does not stumble at the start, the Volkswagen Group is going to roll out electric car-based powertrains on a large scale. Then it is not impossible that it might be offered in the new A1, too?

New e-tron – new problems?

In the middle of the room was Audi's new all-electric e-tron model. It was still covered and was not to be uncovered until 6 o'clock in the evening. It undoubtedly looks beautiful, but the question the world is asking is whether the quality of the advanced technology is good enough. If not, the emergency pockets are going to be tight for the winter.
 

If I ever open the bike shed, they can borrow my bike 🙂

 


Same symptoms in the new Audi e-tron!

hyundai i10Found an article on tek no. Audi e-tron owner Øyvind Stensby learned that his Audi e-tron went completely bananas. The reason, according to Audi, is that it had been on slow charging for more than 12 hours. They recommend ignoring the messages, locking the car for 3 minutes and trying again. Anyone had similar experiences?

 

Tek.no: Some Audi e-trons cannot withstand charging for more than 12 hours - go bananas with error messages

 

See

audi e tron
Audi e-tron 55

T5 and A5 with manufacturing defects

"Norwegian ambulances cannot withstand being called out," says VG.

 

A5 and T5.
A5 and T5.
Newspapers all over the country have reported problems with Volkswagen T5-based ambulances. Engines have been changed on almost all of them. Some have changed the engine several times. The problems are linked to a common rail diesel biturbo engine that produces 180 HP and has a torque of 400 Nm at 1500-2000 revolutions, - engine code CFCA.

The Norwegian importer, Møller Bil, has changed the engines free of charge for the hospitals. The invoices were certainly forwarded to the factory. Without this follow-up, the case could have received greater media coverage. A notice bigger than the ambulance problems.

"Too heavy a car for this type of engine", claims a representative from Møller Gruppen. The ambulance superstructure is built in Finland and sold through VBK in Norway. In another place I read that "... ambulance driving puts more strain on the engines than normal driving". Among other things, the aim is for the engines to run straight from a cold start to full throttle. "Only a few ambulances are affected".

However, the scope is far greater.

Engine code CFCA is supplied to the T5 Transporter and Caravelle across Europe. The problems apply to all CFCA engines produced in 2010 and 2011. It is easy to confirm this. Although the 180-horsepower was not particularly widespread in Norway in the period in question, I can find several on Finn.no with a changed engine.

The problems are serious.

A manufacturing error has meant that the alloy on the cylinder liners does not measure up. The result is abnormally high oil consumption and abnormal wear on cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. The first sign is that oil consumption is increasing. As wear and tear increases, any consequential damage appears.

The error affects several engines.

It is not unexpected that a manufacturing defect affects other engines from the same group. If you own an Audi A5 2,0 TFSI 180 HP manufactured in 2010 or 2011 (engine code CDNB, possibly CDNC), you will eventually have the same problem as the ambulance drivers. Here, too, there is serious damage to the cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings.

It starts with high oil consumption.

According to Audi's specifications, oil consumption of 1 liter per 2000 km is within what is normal. It is only when the oil consumption exceeds this level that you can claim a warranty claim. In the US, Audi has admitted the manufacturing defect and extended the warranty for affected Audi owners to 8 years or 80 miles (000 km). In Great Britain, Audi has made concessions following a BBC programme. In Norway, affected owners are followed up via their ordinary guarantee schemes. Those who bought the A128 before the 000-year guarantee was introduced in 5 have probably had any problems fixed, even if they fell outside the ordinary guarantee. It is nevertheless worth noting that Møller Bil takes a hard line with regard to assuming responsibility. Only car owners who have followed the service program to the letter are followed up. And if you have chipped your car or trimmed it in some other way, you can forget about warranty follow-up.

I assume that Møller Bil continues to follow up T5 and A5 owners even after the ordinary warranty ends. But sometimes their follow-up responsibility falls away. Then the car owners risk being left with Svarteper and the beard in the mailbox. Affected owners may then be second-hand owners who have no idea that their car has a hidden defect.

The problems are not linked to Monday cars, which only affect certain cars in production. It applies the mentioned engines in the mentioned time period. The question is not ombut when the problems arise. Owners who drive little, change the oil more often than the longlife service program, use engine heaters or park indoors in the winter, - and are careful with engine pressure, can make engines last longer than average.

But how long will they last?

It is the the question you should ask yourself if you own one of the affected cars, or are considering buying one. Unfortunately, there is a high risk that the problems will only appear later in the car's life cycle. Then you can no longer count on getting any support from the importer.

I would choose a different engine myself.

 

Clipped from the web

VG.no 14.06.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX – Norwegian ambulances cannot withstand being called out

A concerned A5 owner blogs about his bitter experiences.

See also: Manufacturing Defects on T5 and A5
 

Excerpt from sales advertisements for T5 on Finn.no

Cylinders have been drilled at Oslo sylinderservice, and Audi has dismantled and replaced all parts. (112 km)

For those who know about it, and this engine in particular, and wonder if the pistons and rods have been changed, the answer is yes. This was done at Audi Asker and Bærum at 53km.

The engine was changed at approx. 35 km due to high oil consumption, which has been a known problem with these engines.

Engine changed by Volkswagen dealer at 110km. Documentation is attached.

Recently changed engine on Møller. 185 km

The engine was changed on 18 February. 2016 km 153 under warranty …. (A known problem at VW).

 

See also:

t5
Volkswagen Transporter Sportline.